Thursday, February 28, 2008

Defending the Facts on Obama's Faith

I tend not to get into heated arguments about politics, but at the very least it's important to have the facts. I really respect Jim Wallis and, if you find yourself discussing politics, I encourage you to have a look at his blog entry on Senator Obama's faith.


HL7 said...

I agree with you that Obama is not Muslim, but let's not call him a Christian either. His stance on abortion is at once deplorable and a joke.

To say that he is a Christian is to say that Hitler was a Christian: they both claimed it but support genocide.

I know you didn't overtly endorse him, but I'll put myself out there and stand against him.

Anonymous said...

Abortion and endorsement of Homosexual Rights are ABOMINATIONS in the eyes of the Lord. If you support a candidate like that then means YOU SUPPORT those issues. Don't make the wrong choice. Or on the other hand, go ahead, but in the Bible it says, "its better to tie a millstone around your neck and be hurled into the sea, than to cause one of these little ones to sin." I don't think a life-preserver would be of much use there.

Just because a candidate looks good, speaks well, is backed by Hollywood, and happens to be a minority does not mean that he makes the best candidate. ESPECIALLY, since his core values have been influenced by a RABID HIPPIE ATHEIST mother who had the "sense" to marry not one, but TWO DEVOUT MUSLIM men, and raise her son for the 1st 10 years of his life as a Muslim!

If you think that these people have not shaped his mind during his lifetime with certain ideas, beliefs, and "values," and that they don't have any INDIRECT input in his decision-making capacity then you clearly have not thought this out.

And just to add another point: Concerning that picture that came out with Obama looking like he was some sultan from 19th century Iran-- Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) didn't even offer clarification. HE KNOWS that this is a hot topic in regards to the American people. HE KNOWS people question his stance. However, he DID NOT offer clarification. He did not say, "Hey, I was just wearing that outfit b/c I was in Somalia. Just b/c I wore a Muslim outfit, doesn't make me one."


All he said was, "I don't think this was meant to enhance my campaign. But, I don't think that this is in indicative of the type of campaign that Senator Clinton is trying to run." That's it. I don't know about you, but I DON'T LIKE THAT ANSWER AT ALL.

Don't make the mistake of backing someone who has very questionable connections, and who CERTAINLY DOESN'T SUPPORT CHRISTIAN VIEWS.

Remember, ABOVE ALL ELSE, we are Christians... there was once a time when our views were inseparably connected with American Values. THE ENEMY is trying to break that bond with smooth talk, a fancy marketing package, and the ever-present whine of "being open-minded."
You can be open-minded about many things. You can be open-minded about what color car you want, about AT&T or Verizon, you can even disagree about football teams, food, and jobs. BUT to disagree on a core-value system is WRONGGGGGGGGGG!

I had one fellow Copt actually argue with me in CHURCH about "the Truth." He said that the truth is dependent on the person delivering it. I said that with his logic, the Koran is true. He said that "maybe it is; if you ask the muslim -- it is. Maybe we're wrong." This is not an accurate method of thinking b/c the fact still remains -- despite differing viewpoints, the Truth exists.

If I believe that February 29th is a Friday, but YOU think it's actually a Tuesday, we have differeing viewpoints. However, the truth remains.

My friend actually disagreed with me. He said that the Truth was RELATIVE.

Have we become so BROAD-MINDED that we can't STAND for OUR POSITION!?

One of the GREATEST American leaders EVER said this: "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything." Look at your Ten-Dollar bill to see this great American leader. But, if you want to see someone who wants YOU to fall for anything... The guy who will bring about the downfall of the United States... Look no further than Barack Obama. Don't be distracted. Don't be fooled. And please... PLEASE -- Don't make the mistake of voting for OBAMA.

+Harvey & Yostina

Nader Alfie said...


Can we really say that any candidate's stance on any of the issues is a "joke"?

I think that Clinton, McCain, Obama, Huckabee and Paul have each had very good moments during this campaign. For example, Paul was mocked by a debate moderator on TV regarding his electability. I think he responded very respectably and intelligently regarding his qualifications as a conservative.

We really need to change the tone in this country or it is only a matter of time before there will no longer be "this country". Democrats AND Republicans are in some kind of game to see who can beat the other. The rest of us are just sort of standing and watching.

Harvey (and Yostina?),

Oh, Harv. You're so cute when you get all worked up.

I would just add that there are other issues pertinent to the Scriptures besides abortion and civil unions.

To Both,

I would discourage making gratuitous references to Hitler and angry references to Muslims.

Regarding the Truth: God isn't a Democrat or a Republican.

Anonymous said...

The Scriptures do talk about other pertinent modern-day issues besides abortion and civil unions... Taxation? Check. Weapons & Security? Check. How about
Capital Punishment? Yes, its in there! Divorce? Soitanly! None of these issues, however, are as polarizing as allowing 2 men (or 2 women) to get together and marry each other. Or as polarizing as MURDERING an unborn child. That's why it is of utmost importance to stand firm on those issues.

+ H A R V E Y !

(Happy now?)

PS. Because God is beyond political parties, does that mean we shouldn't support a candidate of that party?

And yes, I am cute.

Nader Alfie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Nader Alfie said...

And who said we couldn't agree?

And as I said before, I only meant to provide some clarifications regarding his faith.

I really "have no horse in the race" as O'Reilly says.

I am an independent and have the luxury of waiting until November to decide. ;)

Nader Alfie said...


With respect to relativism, I see what it is doing to our culture and to our generation and those coming after us. I recommend the lectures and books of Ravi Zakarias to those interested in this issue.

HL7 said...


Let me clarify. This isn't about whether a candidate is Muslim/Christian or Democrat/Republican. I would have absolutely no problem voting for an Democratic Atheist if his views on the issues conformed to the Bible more than a Christian Republican, or even an Orthodox candidate who "kicks against the goads". I respect you greatly, and I know that you are educated and a great Christian, but if you were running for office and happened to be pro-choice, I wouldn't think twice about voting against you (but maybe we can still be friends?).

I know the issues, I understand that they all matter, but let's not kid ourselves and pretend that they are equally weighted. Abortion is THE single biggest injustice of our time--one million lives are lost PER YEAR; I don't know what the number cutoff is, but I would think that's genocide. And the more I think about it, the more I realize that their blood is on the hands of every congressman, supreme court justice, etc. that upholds it (this isn't just about a single mother). When I die, I, for one, don't want that vote on my record. I can just imagine:

GOD: You voted for a candidate that's pro-choice?
ME: Yeah, well...I think the healthcare system was messed up and I paid too much in taxes last year.

I agree with Harvey on the Biblical authority regarding the issue of marriage as well.

I commend you for not having a "horse in the race." And I also feel no allegiance to one party over the other, but I plan on voting as a Christian. I have yet to see one logical, persuasive argument (although it would have to be more of a thesis) as to how a Christian can vote for Obama.

Anonymous said...

Whoever you are HL7, you are awesome.

United we stand -- divided we fall.


Nader, you know I love u 2. =)